The NZ left and Iran
Still nothing from the NZ left on the uprising in Iran I see.
The Workers Party, nothing on their site, SW the same. Indymedia NZ, not a peep.
Is it that no-one has anything to say on the subject, or embarrassed about what they think.
Comments
A UK perspective
http://leninology.blogspot.com/2009/06/question-of-solidarity.html
Support Justice for Iranian Workers
The RMTU INVITES YOU TO A PROTEST
To support Justice for Iranian Workers
Friday26th June
Noon – 2:00 p.m.
Iranian Embassy,
151 Te Anau Road, Hataitai
BBQ and entertainment provided plus transport – contact the RMTU
No opinion on events in Iran
No opinion on events in Iran from the anonymous poster either.That person may have nothing to say, be embarressed about their thoughts, or, like us, be working to assess a complicated political situation before sounding off about it.
?
Well Don I am hardly anonymous and I've posted an article to which I have said I am in broad agreement.
I await with interest the position of the Workers Party (or do they not have one yet?)
Cheers Frank.Keep an eye on
Cheers Frank.
Keep an eye on our site.
Keep an eye on the site?
Lets see, the uprising has been going on for what, 10 days now, and all you can say is "we'll get back to you on our opinion, it's all a bit complicated." That does not bode well for the "leadership of the revolutionary party" if it takes you a month to work out which side you are on between riot police and protestors.
Come on Don, can't you give us a hint?
Time marches On
At "24 June 2009 - 10:05am, Don told us "Keep an eye on our site."
Still nothing.
Another article people might find of interest
http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=18289
Welly protest on Friday
The RMTU INVITES YOU TO A PROTEST
To support Justice for Iranian Workers
Friday 26th June
Noon – 2:00 p.m.
Iranian Embassy,
151 Te Anau Road, Hataitai
BBQ and entertainment provided plus transport – contact the RMTU
It's an awkward subject for
It's an awkward subject for Socialist Worker/RAM, because both George Galloway and Hugo Chavez have come out in support of the regime in Iran. On the Socialist Unity blog Daphne Lawless of RAM has endorsed Chavez's stance. Looks like some people haven't leanred the lessons of Tianamen Square.
In December/January almost
In December/January almost everyone but hard core Zionist apologists who saw pictures of the dead the injured and the terrified in Gaza, sympathised with the ones being brutalised. In June the same thing goes with the severe violent crackdown on the protests. Those who sympathise with the people doing the brutalising find themselves out in the wilderness, howling to no-one. In one way this is actually a good thing, as it clears out from the left the people who are not really left in any meaningful sense.
http://www.marxist.com/venezu
http://www.marxist.com/venezuela-solidarity-iran-statement-cmr.htm
By Revolutionary Marxist Current Wednesday, 24 June 2009
In response to recent statements by Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez, the Venezuelan Revolutionary Marxist Current has issued this statement. They express their support for the movement of the masses in Iran and explain the differences between the revolutionary movement in Venezuela and the counter-revolutionary regime in Iran.
The Bolivarian Revolution and Iran
In Iran we have a situation in which the opposition denounces electoral fraud, in which this allegation gets support from the imperialist powers and in which there are street demonstrations against the election results. It is understandable that many revolutionaries in Venezuela will draw parallels between what is happening in Iran and situations we have lived through during the Bolivarian revolution. In Venezuela, more than once, the reactionary and oligarchic counter-revolution, with the support of imperialism, has attempted to create a situation of chaos in the streets with the excuse of an alleged “electoral fraud” in order to de-legitimise the election victories of the revolution (during the recall referendum, in the 2006 presidential elections, during the constitutional reform referendum in 2007, etc).
However these parallels do not correspond to reality.
Translation of Iran slogans and signs
http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-281703
June 26,
June 26, 2009
The Freedom Socialist Party stands in solidarity with the courageous Iranian youth, women, workers, trade unionists and intellectuals who took to the streets to challenge the repressive Islamic regime and demand presidential elections where at the very least their votes are counted. However, in a theocracy such as Iran the ultimate power and legitimacy of the regime rests not with the people, but with the clerics. Any vote or governmental decision can be overturned by the Supreme Spiritual Leader and the 12-man Council of Guardians which pre-approves all candidates for election and has blessed the suspect vote tally for President Ahmadinejad.
For this reason it is not enough to demand a new presidential election. What is needed is a new, secular regime where democratic rights are respected, including those of national minorities; stoning is outlawed; persecution of women, young people and gays who do not conform to the fundamentalist world view is banned; the right of unionists to strike is protected; freedom of thought and political affiliation are encouraged; and the vast wealth of the country is in the hands of the working people who create it, not a free trade elite.
The days of the Islamic regime are numbered. If not this year, in the near future it will be overthrown by Iranian workers of all nationalities and both sexes, just as they overthrew the despised Shah in 1979. Women played a vanguard role in that revolution only to be violently repressed by the Islamicists who seized control of the anti-Shah movement. For 30 years women have suffered as second-class citizens, but today they are proudly once again in the vanguard of the movement for democratic freedoms. We hail their courage and stand shoulder-to-shoulder with them as we did in 1979.
We are sickened by the reign of terror that has been unleashed against protesters since the polls closed. We denounce the murder, brutal beatings and mass arrests of demonstrators and call on the government to put down its truncheons and lower its guns, disarm the Basij militia and order police and Revolutionary Guards to respect the rights of free speech and assembly. Members of the militia and other armed forces which are killing and maiming protestors must be tried for their crimes.
At the same time, the Freedom Socialist Party condemns U.S. attempts to destabilize Iran through a covert operation authorized by the Bush administration, funded by Congress to the tune of $400 million and supported by President Obama. CIA backing for a Sunni fundamentalist group called Jundallah (Soldiers of God) has already resulted in death and injury inside Iran and is reminiscent of the support the CIA gave to the Taliban in its early years.
Issued by: Freedom Socialist Party, International Executive Committee, PO Box 266, West Brunswick, VIC 3055 AUSTRALIA ● fsp.iec@ozemail.com.au ● www.socialism.com
Down with the theocracy!For freedom and socialism in Iran!
Freedom for women, gays and national minorities in Iran!
U.S. hands off Iran! Freedom Socialist Party Statement on Revolt in Iran
CIA and Iran
No one has seen it or joined the dots!
In 1953 the newly formed CIA engineered the downfall of democratically elect leader of Iran creating the mess that would culminate in the 1979 revolution.
Now we have an Iran that is developing [shock, horror!] nuclear weapons.
America is leery of invading or bombing this country after the Iraq debacle. America knows Russia wont sit quiet if its people or assets are harmed.
Solution?:have the company[CIA] foment and support dessent and regime change,
want to know more?...www.whatreallyhappened.com
For the record...
before I am accused of being a fundamentalist or worse
I have no support for religous fundamentalism regardless of the tradition it comes from. These people [the spiritual leaders of Iran] would have me stoned in an instant.
What I do hate is the deliberate and cynical interference in the political affairs of other countries by covert agencies of state US or otherwise. Iran is entitled under international law [NPT] to develop civil nuclear energy projects.
IRAN : For a revolutionary Party!
[Draft Outline CWG statement : comments and corrections welcomed]
The tragedy of the 1979 revolution showed that Iran was ripe for revolution but lacked a revolutionary leadership. The failure of the socialist revolution can be clearly blamed on the role of the Stalinist Tudeh and the adventurist Maoists and Guevaraists who had illusions in the Islamic leadership which then turned on the workers vanguard and destroyed it as happened in China in 1927. http://communistworker.blogspot.com/2009/01/is-iran-next-on-bushs-hit-li...
Today we have a split in that Islamic leadership between two factions of the bourgeoisie who are squabbling over the best role for Iran to play in order to benefit the Irani bourgeoisie. One of those factions, that of Khamenei/Ahmadinejad is a rightwing populist faction that bases itself on the rural poor. It mobilises the poor around an Islamic nationalism against imperialism. The other, around Rafsanjani/Moussavi is based on the urban middle class and some sectors of workers and favors a modern Islamic state that can do deals with ‘democratic’ imperialism.
What position should revolutionaries take in this fight?
Those who see the US as the main enemy (or like Petras see the US as a pawn of the Israelis) back the rightwing populists because they think they are genuinely anti-imperialist.
The leadership of the World Social Forum takes this line with Chavez coming out in support of the populists. This shows that the Venezuelan Bonapartist recognises himself in the right wing populist Ahmadinejad.
Those who think that imperialism can be democratic and peaceful back the modernizers. This includes the imperialists and all their reformist fronts.
The left leg of the WSF (Marxist.com etc) covers for Chavez support of the right populists by backing the 'democratic' rights of the protesters, covering Chavez backside with the call for a national democratic front in the form of a “constituent assembly”. They hope to "pressure" the WSF popular front to the left as Chavez tends to the right. But they operate in the same popular front.
Revolutionaries back neither bourgeois faction but instead back the fight for the political independence of the working class. We explain that there can be no national independence from imperialism without the working class leading that fight all the way to socialism. For this we need a program for a real Socialist Republic.
For a Socialist Republic
Our program is first, to defend the democratic rights of workers, peasants, students etc to vote, to demonstrate, for freedom of expression in the media and on the streets etc. This includes freedom of all political prisoners, freedom of religion, opposition to Sharia law, etc. Without these democratic rights it is not possible to organize openly an independent working class movement.
We also defend the national rights of Iranians to be free from the oppression of imperialism but say that only a Socialist Republic can do this.
To that end we form a united front with those who are protesting the outcome of the election whether or not it was rigged, but without an ounce of political support to the modernizers who have illusions in imperialism. We do not renounce this fight for democratic rights under the delusion that this weakens the rightwing populist credentials as anti-imperialist. Fraud!
Second, we demand a program that will meet the needs of workers, peasants etc particularly facing an economic crisis and state repression, for jobs for all, a living wage, decent housing, education and social security.
Third, we say to workers that to win these democratic rights, to organize an economy that can meet workers needs, it will be necessary to take power. Workers must strike and occupy their workplaces, arm and defend themselves. There can be no compromise with the bourgeoisie of any faction. No trust can be placed in any of the institutions of the state, especially the military and the justice system.
Fourth, this means that workers have to organize their own assemblies around workplaces and universities, and coordinate regionally and nationally. We call on poor peasants to organize their own “shora” and for the ranks of the military to organize their rank and file “shora”. These “shora” have to be defended by armed workers, peasants and rank and file soldiers.
Inside these “shora” revolutionaries have to fight for the leadership around a Leninist-Trotskyist program of world socialist revolution to defeat the traitors of the world social forum.
For a Workers and Poor Peasants Government
Finally, to express the interests of the workers, the poor peasants and students, we call for the formation of a Workers’ and Poor Peasants Government, i.e. the Dictatorship of the Proletariat.
We do not accept that to mobilise the forces for revolution that it is necessary to call first for a Constituent Assembly which is a form of bourgeois regime that recognises the right of the bourgeoisie to have an equal vote with workers. This is a Menshevik concession to Stalinist stagism and a vote of no-confidence in the revolutionary capacity of the working class and its vanguard. It is another form of the popular front which entraps workers and poor peasants inside a bourgeois regime.
A Workers’ and Poor Peasants’ Government is the Government of those classes who are exploited by the bourgeoisie, and of the petty bourgeoisie who prove themselves loyal to the revolution. The only form of Socialist Republic that we recognise is the Dictatorship of the Proletariat.
26 June 2009
"Still nothing from the NZ
"Still nothing from the NZ left on the uprising in Iran I see."
Still nothing from the NZ Left on the death of Michael Jackson I see.
The NZ left and Iran
Having something to say about what's going on in Iran is important but rushing to get some illinformed piece out isn't. If we were the Iranian left, a quick response would be crucial, but whether or not the NZ left gets something out within some arbitrary time expected by an anonymous Indymedia poster is not important. The new issue of the Spark, due out next weekend, will have an article on Iran and it, or something else on the subject will go on the website.
Cheers,
John
So funny
It seems that to produce an article in solidarity with the people of Iran in any time quicker than three weeks would be "ill informed"
Thank goodness we are not relying on the workers party leadership eh chums!
Not really Frank. It's just
Not really Frank. It's just that we have jobs, families and other responsibilities and sometimes that means we can't drop everything to write an article about something on the other side of the world. We produce a monthly paper so that's what article writing primarily has to be planned around. If we can get comment onto the blog we do but not at the expense of getting the Spark out.
Cheap shots are not really called for. What I find odd is that if people genuinely want to know what a particular group thinks about an issue, they could always have got in touch with the group concerned. SA, SW and WP all have facilities on their websites to contact them with a question. Rather, a snide attack was launched in public (ie Indymedia). It strikes me that the inquiry was less about finding out what the group has to say and more about scoring points. This kind of sectarian nonsense ("Thank goodness we are not relying on the workers party leadership eh chums" and the like) is no way to build a movement for socialism.
Anyway, to put your mind at rest Frank, the sneak preview is that the WP does support the right of the Iranian people to freedom from theocratic rule and doesn't support the position taken by the Ahmadinejad government, regardless of whether or not the vote was rigged.
Cheers,
John
Finally an answer!
"That sometimes that means we can't drop everything to write an article about something on the other side of the world."
Funnily enough on your site you manage to be up to date on Nepal, I guess that your family commitments take a back seat then?
I also find it interesting that you take my point as a "snide attack"
So much for the "vanguard of the working class" seems more like a bunch of crybabies.
I have lots of respect for many of the rank and file of the WP and the work they do in the union struggle, it's a pity about the "leadership" of the organisation.
"This kind of sectarian nonsense .. is no way to build a movement for socialism."
So hiding and abstention is?
"Crybabies"?, "hiding",
"Crybabies"?, "hiding", "abstention"??? The WP has not "cried", it has not "hidden" and it has not "abstained". It has written an article which I hope readers will find useful in trying to understand the situation in Iran.
My daughter read your post and said "I don't know why you guys waste your time replying to stuff like that. Any serious person reading Indymedia will see that it's ridiculous". She's probably right.
Cheers,
John
Nepal, Iran, and Indy sectarians
"Funnily enough on your site you manage to be up to date on Nepal, I guess that your family commitments take a back seat then?"
Two things. Firstly, the last few articles on Nepal have all been written by me, except for one which was posted on the website by another WP comrade and was written by a guy called Mike Ely from a group called the Kasama Project (you should check out Kasama, it's a fantastic website. www.kasamaproject.org). As far as I'm aware don't have any children or spouses, and I'm seperated from my family by the Cook Straight so generally my commitments to them are pretty minimal.
Secondly, your snide wee attack doesn't have any basis in reality (and reveals your ignorance about the situation in Nepal). We do not have lightning quick updates about the latest developments to do with the revolutionary process in Nepal, and we certainly don't priorities it over the uprising in Iran, which you imply we are somehow neglecting. The latest article on the website (and in the latest Spark), Presidential Coup in Nepal, was published on June 22nd. Prachanda and the Unified Communist Party of Nepal (Maoist) resigned from government on May 4th. More than a month passed before an article was published detailing what happened. Since we're talking about Maoists, there's a Mao quote I've always liked - "No investigation, no right to speak". You'd do well to adopt that approach Frank.
With both Nepal and Iran, we've waited until we have democratically decided upon a clear and unified position on the events taking place, and only then do we publish an article. There's also the other commitments people have, such as family, work, and so on. If you want more regular and timely updates about what the Workers Party is saying Frak, perhaps you should join the Spark email discussion list?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheSpark_Discussion/join
PS
Thanks for the link Alistair, there was nothing about Iran that I could see, but I did enjoy the wide ranging discussion about "Transformers II"
Nothing like getting your priorities right eh comrade?
pps
The workers party site (http://workersparty.org.nz) still has nothing on Iran, but somehow (and I'm hoping no-one is rushing in and neglecting their family here) an article has popped up about the coup in Honduras!
John, I think any "serious person" might conclude that our point has been proved.
Frank, your desperate efforts
Frank, your desperate efforts to criticise the WP are truly entertaining. As you know we are a small organisation. The energy you put into trying to discredit us is completely wasted. The latest charge is that we had the audacity to produce an article on Honduras, not that you felt the need to express an opinion on that article, only another snide attack on us for publishing it. For your information, I wrote both our article on Iran and our article on Honduras, but don't worry, I managed to uphold my family and work responsibilities without shedding a single tear. It just took some time.
It may come as a surprise to you to learn that my knowledge about the two regions is not identical. While I do follow what is happening in Iran, I haven't been following it as closely as I have issues in Latin America. I needed to read more widely to be sure what I wrote was accurate. That article will be in the new Spark and will also go onto the website, probably after this weekend.
The Honduras article I wrote immediately afterwards but because it was too late for the Spark it went straight to the blog. It's as simple as that. You can choose to read whatever sinister undercurrents you like into it, but they will be as fictitious and ungrounded in reality as the other charges you have leveled at us in this thread.
Frank, I suggest you use your undoubted talents on something more constructive. For all your criticism of everyone else, you appear to have produced nothing original yourself on the Iran situation.
Cheers,
John
ps. "John, I think any "serious person" might conclude that our point has been proved." Apart from the fact that it's increasingly difficult to work out what your point is: that we're crybabies, hiding, abstaining, commenting too slowly, commenting too quickly, misleading the working class, going to bad movies (:-)), blah blah blah, (actually I think the real crime is being a "party"), who is this "our"? You and Anon?
John
Sorry you took my comments personally John, I was just pointing out a fact, try not to take what I say to heart, it's politics and not really about how you "feel"
(p.s 7 days on the SWP have a post, as do Socialist Aotearoa, still nothing from you know who, perhaps if they spent less time getting all huffy on here and more writing bits for their blog we would all be better off)
John mentions "you appear to have produced nothing original yourself on the Iran situation."
Im not a political party John, see the difference?
No Frank, you just don't seem
No Frank, you just don't seem to want to understand. I have not taken anything personally, despite (I confess) finding it difficult to read a comment like "crybaby" as anything other than an attempt on your part to get personal. Instead, I have seen your little campaign here as an attempt to cast aspersions at the WP for not responding as quickly as you would like and I have chosen, unwisely perhaps in terms of the use of my time, to explain why we did not see the need to race to produce an article to meet the timetable of the original anonymous indymedia poster.
So I'm not "getting huffy". If you'd bothered to read what I wrote you would have seen that I said the new issue of the Spark is out this weekend and the Iran article in that issue will appear on the blog after that. That is how it usually works. Good on SA and SW (I presume that is what you meant by SWP) for having articles on their sites. I haven't read them yet but I will. I hope they make a useful contribution to our understanding of conditions in Iran. The WP is not in a race with them to produce articles, a fact you seem unable or unwilling to grasp.
Like I said, why don't you concentrate your talents on some useful project (as I am sure you must be involved in some), or do you consider what you are doing here on this thread to be useful?
Cheers,
John
Oh dear
For someone who is not taking this issue "personally" you manage to use the word "I" 11 times in three paragraphs.
Why not just post your artice so we can talk about the issue of Iran, rather than having to put up with your tiresome self-obsession.
As I said earlier John, this really isn't about you.
Strange goings on there in
Strange goings on there in Iran. Both sides of the equation are from the same side of the political spectrum. Both were strategic in overthrowing the US stool pigeon the Shar. Both lots went to school together and were basically school mates. Both helped bring in the Āyatollāh regime.
Required reading for
Required reading for Frank:
http://fatalparadox.blogspot.com/2009/07/politics-as-paint-by-numbers-ex...