Please remember security culture
This morning I opened the herald to see what the bullshit the media were spinning about the raids and saw a comment allegedly from a flatmate of one of the activists arrested yesterday in Auckland.
I thought it would be obvious not to comment to the media but apparently not.
I guess I just want to remind people not to talk amongst themselves and speculate and especially do not talk to the media. They are not your friends and they will use you to get the inside scoop.
This was obvious in another article I got forwarded this morning from Bomber's blog. He was sniffing around last night at Unite and had cornered some less experienced activists and was asking them what was going on...
As someone quite rightly put it last night....'if not one talks, everyone walks'.
It is not gossip it is fucken serious and some of our comrades are facing a long time behind bars, it would be good if people could remember that.
Now is an important time to remember AND PRACTISE those good old rules about security culture and solidarity!
The media are easy to ignore however the filth is a different story and it is likely that they will want to 'talk' to some people. If you are concerned about this and don’t know what your rights are etc... please seek the advise of an experienced activist who you TRUST. Maybe we need to have a workshop around this sometime in the next few days so that everyone is confident.
Love and solidarity!
Comments
Bombers Post....
The shit is REALLY going to hit the fan
I've just come back from talking with some people in the activist community who have an idea of what is going on here, and if the allegations as I understand them are true, this country is about to get very, very, very angry. The revelations had my jaw fall open - though I don't believe for one moment what will be revealed is anything more than stupid arrogant boasts on the behalf of those who have been caught, middle NZ will recoil in horror and the right wing are about to be handed the most devestating home goal from a group of clowns who are about to set off a chain reaction the ends of which simply can't be determined.
two things seem certain:
I: God forgive me, but as I understand it (and I'm open to being wrong, please let me be wrong) BUT the Police look like they were right to be concerned
2: There is going to be outrage when the full story gets out the likes of which talkback have never dreamt of.
Things are about to get really bumpy and I fear where this is going to end. I'm going to bed in the hope this is all one bad dream.
Re: Bombers Post....
And, of course, going to bed and pulling the covers over our heads are precisely what the people who are fanning this Terror Scare want us to do. Quite frankly, I don't care whether some idiots are talking tough or not - if activists scatter, hide, disassociate themselves from the bad people, etc, we are doing the enemy's work for them.
I'm certainly not going to change my political behaviour one iota, even if we are heading into McCarthyism 2 - because if we all go our own ways we will all end up going the same way. Someone has to stay staunch.
Re: Re: Bombers Post....
McCarthyism 2 seems to be alive and well in this community - the unquestioning assumption that "police wrong" demonstrates this.
You may claim you know these people, but how well? Do you know everyithing about their connections, goals and what they talk about when you are not around? Why do you think the police's knowledge of what was going on is somehow less than yours? You say the police know nothing yet the police are also credited with a Stalinist level of surveillance, a net work of informers and spies ...
Ponder this - why refer to Maori seperatists are "comrades." Their goals are antithetical to socialism. Simply because you share a common opposition to the iron heel of the oligarchs, isn't enough. Otherwise, you'd welcome in the neo-nazis and Destiny Church.
Re: Bombers Post....
Good Security Culture:
Shutting the fuck up when you don't know what's going on.
Bad Security Culture:
See bomber's post.
Re: Please remember security culture
Hi everyone, just a reminder that activist groups have been infiltrated many many times before and please do not gossip or talk to other activists if you do not need to. There is a good chance that some of the activists throughout the country could be infiltrators and we should not be gossiping within the community.
Last night a lot of people were asking for details which they did not strictly need to know, feel free to ask about what to say if the police come knocking but do not ask or talk about the accussed.
Love and Solidarity - John
Re: Please remember security culture
Oh gee Bomber, what a champion of justice you are. Or should that be 'bed-fellow of politicians'. More interested in music television and self-serving promotion that an intelligent analysis of state repression and media framing of activists. Yawn. Remind me not to buy your merchandise.
activism of fascism?
Of all the people in "The media", Bradbury is probably your best shot at a sympathetic hearing. Of course the commercial media will make it up - especially when you don't give them the time of day.
I admire anyone who is prepared to take a stand. What I don't admire is stupidity. Talk of the "enemy" and the "filth" is exactly the same melodramatic nonsense Neo-Nazis and criminals use to justify their antics. One who believes they can change the world by force is a fascist.
These sentiments are the kind of post-pubescent, purile fantasies I used to have. I have found better ways to influence people, occasionally I’ve taken it out on property. I try to avoid taking out my problems against other people. Simply because it doesn't work, and what goes around comes around.
I don’t know much about this business, so I cannot make any calls as to the intentions of these people. But going on what I have read on this site, there is a lot of anger and resentment. What I don't see is a lot of clear thinking.
The real enemy is within. You has to decide whether you are going to use power and propaganda, or are you going to use information and influence. A person can't make me or anyone else agree with their ideas without my consent. Activism or fascism? what is it to be?
Re: activism of fascism?
I think that there is a huge difference in puting out comment to the media as a movement and activists being bullied or mainpulated into talking to the media or the state for that matter.
The point is that these are very serious charges and that gossip and any information leaked to the media or state could be have unforseen results especially as we don't fully know what is going on yet.
As for talk of the enemy and the filth, anyone who believes that they can change the world without recognising that the state, capitalism and their goons are enemies of the animals, land and people is an idiot.
Re: Re: activism of fascism?
So anyone who doesn't agree with you is an "idiot". That is a revealing comment.
Have you ever considered the idea, that if someone doesn't agree with you they may have different values from your own?
Do you seriously expect to change the world by calling people names and demonizing the "enemy"?
The State is not a singular entity, neither is capitalism or their "goons". These are people. The state is neither for or against you. The State is indifferent to your existence. Blaming “The State” or religions or capitalism for the evils of the world is delusional and does not make you perfect or right. It all comes down to people.
Many laws and rules are unjust. However, it depends entirely on what and who you are dealing with. If you treat an individual with disrespect, would that person be likely to warm to your message and treat you well?
Activism needs a strong philosophical base, visionary leadership and courage. Activism does not need muddle headed militants who project their own emotional inadequacies onto the "enemy". This kind of person completely undermine the groups objectives and are a public relations disaster. Activism needs BRAINS as well as hearts and intestines.
Do you have the courage to discuss ideas with equals and use your powers of persuasion to allow people their sovereign right to make up their own minds?
Re: Please remember security culture
Do you guys ever sit back and read what you write with your prejudice put aside?
An activist with a sign is a protestor
An activist with a gun is a rebel
An activist with a brain, votes
Guns have no place in NZ activism and the country is a better place with 17 rebels behind bars.
There is no place for minority extremists who believe they can effect political change with violence.
Imagine if they did succeed at a governmental overthrow, the country would degrade into a feudalistic dictatorship and wouldn't be a NZ I would like to live in.
Re: Re: Please remember security culture
But the thing is, you corporate-media-pablum-spouting hack, that most of the 17 people arrested have had no connection with violent movements against the state at all. Let's nip this urban legend, actually, LIE in the bud right now. The people who were arrested in Ruatoki only have the most marginal connections with the people arrested in Auckland and Wellington. This is a beat-up, as far as the latter group are concerned at least.
Re: Re: Please remember security culture
I dunno if theres something mysterious happing in NZ, but over here in Australia voting hasn't changed a god damn thing.
Yes I agree, Guns Bad. I hate the fucking things, and anyway States are better at guns.
But votings had a couple hundred years to prove itself as a valid tactic.
I reckon it just encourages the bastards.
I prefer to dance. Ar least its fun.
Re: "17 Rebels Behind Bars"
A poster above wrote that:
"Guns have no place in NZ activism and the country is a better place with 17 rebels behind bars."
One thing we must all realise is that you never believe what the coppers say, particularly when arrests are made and they're working hand in hand with the media. Here in Australia it's standard practice for the coppers to arrive at an "anti-terrorist" bust with the media in tow (or at least tipped off to be at the address in question) and then feed a sensationalist story to the press.
It's understandable (though still not forgivable) from the point of view of the media, since they're in the dark & are reliant on the coppers for information. After all, the arrestees are hardly in a position to comment. Further, if the friends & family of the arrested have any sense, they won't be talking to anyone in the media or the cops until they've had the chance to find out exactly what the score is.
So the coppers have the field to themselves. And, crucially, they use the story about the bust to get themselves good press and contaminate the jury pool for when the case eventually gets to trial. It is at the point of initial arrest that the worst images are conjured and the worst insinuations are made, ones for which they have no evidence and never will.
Once charges are officially laid, there are rules about sub judice, but anything goes when reporting the bust. These professional perjurers are softening up the public for the lies they are preparing to tell in court.
Therefore, the only thing that can be believed with confidence is the number arrested and the names that have come out. Don't trust anything the coppers say unless it is independently verified.
Re: Re: Please remember security culture
>>An activist with a brain, votes
You're fuckin' kidding right? Voting in most western politics changes the representative in the system, but not the system itself. We can't elect our police officers, we're subject to the power of puppet a or puppet b who is in power. Voting is like praying, it's a way of doing nothing whilst thinking you're doing something.
Re: Please remember security culture
Do you guys ever sit back and read what you write with your prejudice put aside?
An activist with a sign is a protestor
An activist with a gun is a rebel
An activist with a brain, votes
Guns have no place in NZ activism and the country is a better place with 17 rebels behind bars.
There is no place for minority extremists who believe they can effect political change with violence.
Imagine if they did succeed at a governmental overthrow, the country would degrade into a feudalistic dictatorship and wouldn't be a NZ I would like to live in.
Re: Please remember security culture
You fucken commies have fucked up big time.Like the above post says,you have handed us NAZIS the home goal.You LEFTYS have lost all credibility and will never regain it.Whats more the cops havnt raided the NAZI training camps and arms dumps.
Re: Please remember security culture
Do you guys ever sit back and read what you write with your prejudice put aside?
An activist with a sign is a protestor
An activist with a gun is a rebel
An activist with a brain, votes
Guns have no place in NZ activism and the country is a better place with 17 rebels behind bars.
There is no place for minority extremists who believe they can effect political change with violence.
Imagine if they did succeed at a governmental overthrow, the country would degrade into a feudalistic dictatorship and wouldn't be a NZ I would like to live in.
Re: Please remember security culture
Thank you Mr Sheep. If voting changed anything important, it would be made illegal. That's why we have an activist movement.
Re: Re: Please remember security culture
you idealist mind slave,
you are wrong, voting doesn't change anything for minorities that's why activism exists.
but theres a reason for that, why should the majority of people live by the ideals of a minority belief.
if you are part of a minority thats the way the cookie crumbles, get more support, get more votes then you can change things.
the majority say they want to live in a society without the fear of guns in the wrong hands, these guys were the wrong hands and IF they had guns they should pay accordingly.
Re: Re: Please remember security culture
We just got four environmentalists onto the Canty Regional council in a first past the post election. If voting is so lame then what is the preferred alternative?
Re: Re: Re: Please remember security culture
history shows us that direct action holds great potential in the successful advance of social movements in terms of A) how to organise and also B) how to achieve results, than parliamentary tactics which offer only slight gains which are inevitably lost over time by reactionary forces in parliaments who seek to curtail our freedoms.
when they get the chance, when people are sufficiently occupied or afraid, they simply rollback the advances. this is happening now. we are losing the freedoms won by social struggle. unless we keep the pressure on them where they feel it -- with money -- with disruption, with direct action.
getting elected is counter-revolutionary if it isn't a step towards galvanising social organisations to replace the current corrupt structures which waste activists time and energy. better to show the way through direct action.
Re: Please remember security culture
i never voted for 300 police to raid peoples houses around the country.
dont write such shite - no one to my knowledge had guns on them when raided. the police had the guns when they invaded tuhoe. nz is on friendly relations with terrorists like howard, bush and the leaders of china and burma.
Re: Re: Please remember security culture
but if I had the opportunity I would have.
Re: Please remember security culture
Once again, race has been included by the separatists to enhance the emotion of their argument. Where all of the arrests Maori or Pacific Islander? If not then your race argument has no grounds, so drop it completely. If the people arrested have any connection to criminal events or criminal persons, then you have no argument so drop it completely.
Would you want the Police to raid a known Neo-Nazi community if you heard one of them talking about an attack on a suburban marae? The answer, as we all know, is Yes.
Re: Re: Please remember security culture
Nazis have something of a track record of violence, to put it mildly. Peace activists, not so much.
Re: Please remember security culture
MAORI PARTY HARD
Re: Please remember security culture
I for one am going to insist on only sending and receiving PGP encrypted emails on sensitive matters. I will be happy to help anyone installs and use it.
Re: Re: Please remember security culture
PGP email will help but won't be much use against forensic hard drive analysis as a some point the email will exist in the clear on your hdd. Use pgpdisk to encrypt the WHOLE Disk from bootup. Then even if seized the computer useless without the startup crypto keys or use true crypt for a free open source alternative.
Re: Please remember security culture
I find it interesting that the raids were made so public especially via the media and especially throgh New Zealands TV3, as opposed to TV1 which is state owned. My experience with raids, which is almost nonexistant, points me to the fact that raids are not usually so publicly advertised. Often the case is that the details, and even the fact that a raid took place at all, is not disclosed to the public untill all things are sorted, not during an ongoing "campaign".
As I do not know full well the story, as I'm sure none of us here do, I will not go in to talking about whether or not anyway is guilty of this and that, I will however state that it is a dark day when "terrorism" is even mentioned as being existant in Aotearoa, let alone having the police bringing "terrorist" charges against people.
This, however, should sort out where New Zealand is as a national community
Re: Please remember security culture
> 'if not one talks, everyone walks'
even when tiny children are murdered - yeah, good one
>some of our comrades are facing a long time behind bars
with any luck, yes - communists, yet to be seen for what they really are - perpetrators of 100m hate-crime murders
hope you all rot in hell
Re: Please remember security culture
> 'if not one talks, everyone walks'
even when tiny children are murdered - yeah, good one
>some of our comrades are facing a long time behind bars
with any luck, yes - communists, yet to be seen for what they really are - perpetrators of 100m hate-crime murders
hope you all rot in hell