Weapons Conference a Battleground for Protesters

And a good front page article in the Dominion Post with a picture of a very pretty protester pinned down by a very mean cop. Good stuff!

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3448082a11,00.html

I don't recall NZ ever being under attack - maybe you were hallucinating?

As a societal member of the Citizens for Respect of Armament Programmes (C.R.A.P.) I applaud you Biffo the Clown for your excellent argument against these deplorable dole-bludging losers of society. How dare they try to stop innocent businessmen and respectable military officers from just doing their job. It is the armament and military industry that keeps the world in peace and keeps our economy going. It's not like food grows on trees you know! If it wasn't for our careful trading and exchanging of goods, and our restructuring of those backward third-world countries, these useless protestors would be living in the gutters.
Hear hear for our brothers in blue - will have to top up that bonus of theirs this year hey comrade?
P.G.
C.R.A.P.Soc.

Words from our comrades in Britain: http://www.beyondtv.org/nato/crap/craps.htm

As a societal member of the Citizens of the world, i applaud the clown army and all those who were at te papa opposing the arms trade.

- those men in blue ain't my brothers -

re: I don't recall NZ ever being under attack - maybe you were hallucinating?

Just because something hasn't happened in the past isnt to say it wont happen in the future. Furthermore, when there's violence etc in the Solomans for example its lucky that our armed forces can go and PREVENT KILLINGS. I'm all for the prevention of the proliferation of arms, but c'mon NZ isn't exactly going to go out massacring anyone.

OK Biffo You're right about Vietnam. And perhaps things may have been different had Brash been in charge with regard to the war on Iraq. However, I reiterate, there is still a necessity for us having a peacekeeping capability.

Australian soldiers burned down churches full of civilians?

You're a freaking nutzoid.

No wonder nobody takes you clowns seriously.

long live the revolutionary clown army!!!

Much fun to be had, the filth dug there own hole this day, there was a amazing feeling within the whole protest group of resistance and determination!

Kia Kaha, all involved, which everway you played out your part.

Hey I just got done reading this post on IMC and I must say, as an American, PLEASE KEEP DOING WHAT YOU ARE DOING. Because if you don't your country will start down the dark, dangerous path that my country has. Currently the US spends $450 Billion dollars, more than the next 37 countries combined, on its military. Look how much the Iraq war is costing the US, not only in lives (1,988 as of this morning), but monetarily as well. That's my money being spent to kill children for oil to fuel our war economy. As of right now the Iraq war is estimated to have cost the US, the most affluent country in the world, $202 billion dollars. This is money that could have been put into our dilapidated schools, or to give medical care to the poor, or to pick the dead corpses off the streets and feed the hurricane devastated people of New Orleans. I'm watching my own country fall apart before my eyes and NO ONE IS DOING ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

If you in NZ don't check the power of the military/industrial complex it will take over your government like it took over ours. Then your government will complain that it has no money to help the sick, the poor, the hungry, the disabled, or to build schools, or homeless shelters, or free clinics, but it will have plenty of money to go running around the world slaying dragons in the name of protecting the business interest of the wealthiest 1%.

Please keep it up Circa. I'd come help you out but plane tickets are expensive and I heard NZ is like 16 hours on a plane. 16 hours of those God-awful inflight movies. Ouch.

in respnoce to get real

... wake up

Loony detector, etc,
PNG is currently one of the most violent and rape prone "peace-keeping" zones. the aids rate is climbing out of control, and the Police and Military are accused fo committing rapes on girl children once they have been arrested for vagrancy (orphans),
This was reported in the World (B) section of the DominionPost in September/early October, as part of a report into violence in the country made by International observers.

Get you head out of the sand!

Do you clowns accept that we need to have weapons to protect us from people who would do us harm? Or do you think that if we get rid of weapons we'll get rid of war?

Realistically, as these so-called realists profess to be, there are many kinds of armed conflict. Each society can choose how to defend itself but which society has the right to attack another? (apart from the usa..) Exporting weapons abroad does nothing to increase this country's safety, or any other's.
Simplistic debate in itself is what can lead to wars, people need to debate dangerous activities to the utmost (such as making extremely violent weapons in home garages) before blithely accepting weapons' exporting as 'good for business' -ye shall reap what ye sow,

Get rid of guns, grenades and bombs and people will use knives. Get rid of knives and people will use sticks. Get rid of sticks and people will use their fists. Get rid of fists - oh that's right, some governments have already tried that (ie Hitler, Stalin, Mao) and that's one of the reasons we need guns, grenades and bombs.

Human nature, not weapons, is the problem. Stunts like this might excite comfy middle-class activists but does nothing to 'stop war'. When push comes to shove, that role inevitably falls to armed forces of democratic nations which have to use violence to stop violence.

It's tough isn't it Sam, when someone points out that the world doesn't correspond to the model western "peace" activists have in their heads?

How do you know i'm "old"? Or did you just decide I am as it fits your preconcieved notions of the world?.

I assume these activists are middle class, because poor people can't generally afford to flit off round the world to anti-G protests in Italy.

I didn't say "people are inherently evil" although some are and we have to protect ourselves from them. Unfortunately that sometimes means using weapons. Sometimes violence is the only option left against a determined enemy.

Many activists can't accept this and still want the public to believe that violent fanatics can be pacified with a group hug. Dressing up in funny costumes can't obscure the fact that defence and weapons remain a necessity.

"Realist" I was using 'old' as a metaphor for your mentality, I couldn't have had a clue what your age is, since you don't use your real name.

So far as I know, I was the only person at the demo who has ever been on a protest in Italy, so how is that evidence of them being middle class? And do you consider everyone who isn't 'poor' to be middle class? By the way, I went to Italy from London using money I'd saved while working as a park keeper and as a sales assistant in a shop -- not very 'middle class' professions.

"Sometimes violence is the only option left against a determined enemy."

I agree, which is why selling them weapons, or letting them buy them with our tax dollars is a really bad idea.

"Many activists can't accept this and still want the public to believe that violent fanatics can be pacified with a group hug."

No they don't - you're just making things up again.

It appears you take a nationalist view of who our enemies are, which I don't, so you might disagree with me as to who is an "enemy". I would regard any state military as a potential enemy, including New Zealand's (which was what I meant by tax dollars, though government money goes to weapons companies as well). As many weapons manufacturing countries have discovered in the past, today's client is tomorrow's foe.

Anyway, here's a couple of particular examples Oscmar sells training systems to the Israeli defence forces who targetted UN peace keepers (who included NZers) in the Lebanon war. Safe Air worked on Indonesian air force planes and the New Zealand military provided training and other support for the Indonesian military who later organised the militias in East Timor who were responsible for NZ's only official combat casulty since Vietnam.

I don't soley take a nation-based view of our enemies. I think militant Islam, which transcends the nation state, is currently our greatest enemy.

So are Israel and Indonesia our enemies?

I know Islam is not my enemy - I said radical Islam. You know the ones who murdered 3000 people in downtown NY, and killed New Zealanders in Bali and London.

Or perhaps that didn't happen and I've just been brainwashed.

Salamado - so if you use any resource above subsistence you're complicit in rape, murder and torture? Gee - this means there's a lot of guilty toddlers out there. And bin Laden is hardly what you'd call poor.

Sam - please provide a reference for your claim that Israeli forces targetted UN troops incl New Zealanders.

Sam, if you really believe that most people are not inherently evil (as I do) then surely you'll trust them with the right to bear arms!

Big deal. In New Zealand we all live in a society where owning a rifle or shotgun is commonplace. But unfortunately concealed carry of handguns (or other firearms for that matter) for self defence isn't legal.

So if you think Kiwis should have the right to carry firearms for self-defence I wonder how you feel about Jews (as individuals) carrying firearms for self-defence? And what about Jews living in Judea and Samaria? Or perhaps you don't think they have the right to self defence? Or perhaps you think Judea and Samaria should be Judenfrei?

Just posing the question!

ultimately it would be better for us all to learn how to defend ourselves with our bodies!!! guns are just a product...